Is lemmy nothing to you people?

No humans here. Just us bots.

And beans

And the occasional corn

And we have rocks.

And a deep hatred of Capital

Is lemmy nothing to you people bots?

I know it’s unrealistic, but what would it take to return to a previous type of Internet that wasn’t so siloed and marketed, and filled with dread Internet?

I think we’d have to take money out of the equation. Without the profit, the mass farms, etc would be pointless. There’s still be trolls but it would be so much better.

In a way, the Lemmy layer is sort of doing that. The previous type of Internet is still out there, if you just take the effort to access it / avoid the links in to the marketed sides.

But it isn’t so many things have gone to Facebook or reddit and nothing else.

The things that have “gone to Facebook or Reddit” mostly didn’t exist before Facebook and Reddit.

Probably less nostalgia and more open protocols. Bring back personal websites, RSS, forums and interoperable social networks. Make switching services painless, kill algorithmic engagement as the default and stop treating every click as ad inventory.

I have started going back to forums and RSS feeds when I can find them. Most of the forums though are pretty dead. I have even started using Usenet again for actual text newsgroups.

I am hoping for a bit of a resurgence as more people move away from algorithmic social media but I won’t hold my breathe on that.

The Usenet still exists? I mean: there are still people!?

Usenet still exists but there isn’t much going on these days. 99.9% of groups are completely dead but there are some that hang on. Even those have low posting numbers but not zero, so I’ll take it.

It exists but nobody wants to use it. We’re a minority. Most want to open “the app” and not spend any effort finding things.

And you wonder why the mega corps want you to give your ID for accessing the internet. Then they can tie your traffic as an actual human and generate ad monies.

So you’re saying pretending to be AI will be the new adblock?

Genious

You are absolutely right!

would you like to know whether you’re speaking to an actual human on the other end of the line?

What I wonder is: how long before “bot speak” becomes unintelligible to humans.

Already: AI slop is so voluminous, redundantly repetitive, thoroughly complete that it defies complete comprehension due to soporific effects.

LLM agents are writing English (or Spanish, or Chinese, Hindi, whatever… and I wonder which they’re “best” at) documents, ostensibly for human review and consumption, but 90%+ of what I have my LLM agents write is exclusively consumed by other agents, and I’m constantly encouraging them to make their writings more easily comprehended and accessed by other agents - it seems like the English translation is pretty useless for that layer - what would a token stream look like instead?

“bot speak” becomes unintelligible to humans.

at some point we will give a name of this phenomenon of internet users who are completely undecipherable for normal people … and call it autism (/hj)

Example of something I had to lookup to understand: (/hj)

Back when I was in school, Autism was a 1/10,000 Dx. 20 years ago it was crashing down from 1/100 to 1/50, checking now… 1/31 today. They’ve lumped so much into the Autism diagnosis that it’s meaningless anymore; it covers so many varied conditions and severities, and the stereotypes don’t fit most recipients of the Dx anymore.

The spectrum is a big place.

A big place with very varying “special needs” ranging from none all the way through fully supported living.

Humans may end up seeing a translated audit layer while the actual machine conversation looks more like APIs than language.

LLM agents are writing English (…) documents, ostensibly for human review and consumption, but 90%+ of what I have my LLM agents write is exclusively consumed by other agents, … and accessed by other agents - it seems like the English translation is pretty useless for that layer …

But remember, the LLM is trained on human language. It doesn’t understand what it is talking about, it just simulates humans talking about it. I don’t think there is a more fundamental token stream there to be uncovered.

The tokens ARE language. They’re just words or parts of words.

If you’re using a western LLM, English IS its strongest language. Otherwise it might be Chinese or English.

There’s no “LLM native language” to convert to for efficiency. Maybe pseudocode or actual code for things where you need to disambiguate.

There’s no “LLM native language” to convert to for efficiency.

Yet. With 1000x as much bot-content being generated on the web as human generated content, the “bot spoken” training set will grow rather quickly, and I see no reason for it not to evolve in a similar way to how human spoken languages evolve.

What’s the point in coming up with an entire new language for them if they can just write English and humans will also understand it?

Kinda pointless to have LLMs optimised to produce garbage humans can’t understand because at the end, your goal is still to produce something humans will consume.

If it’s more efficient then there is a point

It’ll be bots writing articles for bots, bots summarising them for other bots, bots commenting underneath, and bots measuring the engagement.

You ever see that movie, Idiocracy? They cloned a clone and it was retarded. Bots copying bots copying bots will eventually turn to shit that’s hard to decipher and obviously written by bots.

I’m still wondering how long advertisers are going to be shoveling money into it until they realize mostly only bots are the audience, and then what the collapse after that is going to look like.

That might be the real breaking point: not when bots dominate traffic, but when advertisers stop believing the traffic represents humans with wallets.